08-21-2011 at 1:01 PM

okay then, I guess there's no point discussing this more x3 fail at suggestion.

08-21-2011 at 12:32 PM

No support for reasons already stated by Carnivale. I line-breed, not going to lie. It's a way of keeping certain markings I adore in my lines, otherwise I'd have to start another line from the ground up and that's expensive. With all the money cut backs we're getting now? Yeah, I'd quit Alacrity before I'd deal with all that just to be able to have dogs I could trial again.

08-21-2011 at 11:42 AM

Okay no, just no, just because a dog is inbred doesn't mean that they're going to be deformed and such. ALL dog breeds today are inbred at some point, whether severely or line-bred. See, when breeds are being made their ancesters are only a handful of dogs that are bred over and over and then their puppies are inbred in order to keep a specific trait.<br /> <br /> See that cute chihuahua ? It probably has maybe 4 founding ancestors and those bred together.<br /> <br /> GSDs are not like the because of in-breeding, people specifically take those dogs that slope and breed them, now if you inbred ones that didn't slope, that wouldn't mean they'd slope does it ? Show dogs and the show ring has nothing to do with deformities because that's their <i>goal</i>. Every single dog breed we have today has been inbred plenty of times throughout it's evolution.<br /> <br /> If this was ever implemented I would quit, it's unreal.<br /> <br /> Now sure, if you take 2 dogs and breed them together, then take 2 of their puppies and breed them together, and then 2 of theirs and so on, duh their's going to be some problems, but if done responsibly like mother to son, granddaughter to grandfather then it helps improve breeds.

08-21-2011 at 8:52 AM

Outside of a realism standpoint, this is a really <i>fantastic</i> way to lose players. A few people left the last time there was an uproar about this, completely banning even slightly inbred dogs from trialing is kinda terrible, considering how many dogs would suddenly be disqualified.<br /> <br /> The deformities you mentioned takes generations of breeding more for appearance than functionality, and I'm not really cool with alienating a large amount of people over it. That is not fair to players at all, especially when an agreement over inbreeding has already been reached.<br /> <br /> And it isn't just color breeding that messes up animals. Breeding without testing for things like hip displasia and other wretched genetic disorders can also cause hellish deformities in dogs and cats. All responsible breeders should always have genetic tests on their animals. If the animal passes clean, and they have no obvious color issues like the epic screw-up of breeding two merles, or dalmatians with white ears, etc., then you should be fine. And not breeding siblings/parents is generally a good rule, just to be safe.<br /> <br /> EDIT NOTE: Please ignore typos and grammatical failures, dyslexic can't word before coffee.

08-21-2011 at 8:38 AM

Clay - That would likely be because they shared certain color aleles that don't go together, rather than just because they were inbred. Like how you can't breed two hairless cresteds together, you have to breed a hairless to a powderpuff for healthy, viable pups.<br /> <br /> I'm also speaking as someone who doesn't inbreed, and I'm careful when buying dogs outside of my kennel to make sure they don't share genetics beyond great grandparents. So I'm not trying to defend "this is how I make my money and create super high TP dogs" or anything like that. X} I just don't think it's a neccessary measure, especially considering to achieve just about any purebred breed, you -have- to inbreed, which is why purebred dogs tend to have more health problems than mutts, due to the fact some genes and aleles are forced together in order to isolate them.

08-21-2011 at 8:34 AM

Support<br /> <br /> If shows were limited to only visibly clean lined dogs then that would cut out most of the high TP dogs showing right now. This would also cause people to need to sink more money into dogs to make those clean lines, it's not cheap at all. Breeding highly inbred dogs is cheap sense you cut out a ton of work.<br /> <br /> This is also realistic from a genetics point of view. Dogs that are heavily inbred suffer from many inherited disabilities, thus making them useless for trailing. Serval breeds suffer from long term inbreeding. Look at GSD - the spine and back legs. Look at King Charles Cavaliers - The brain casing causing severe pain and death. Look at boxers - epilepsy. Pugs - spine deformities. All these kind of issues make it impossible for that dog to even think about competing in something as hard on the body as agility. It also comes from severe inbreeding over several generations. Yes you can still get these kind of issues in pups of completely unrelated dogs, however, the chance is significantly lower. Most issues like this need two copies of bad genes, which is much more likely to happen if the dogs are related. <br /> <br /> Therefore, if obviously inbred dogs were removed from trailing I don't see that as unfair. They could still be used for beauty contest and such, sense that is based on pure appearance not how well the dog can perform.

08-21-2011 at 8:28 AM

<i>"Also, inbred dogs are not the same as inbred humans, they aren't sick or deformed because their genetics aren't the same as our own."</i><br>I've seen dying, deformed, inbred kittens irl

08-21-2011 at 8:17 AM

Sorry, but no support. We already have a TP penalty for inbreeding. As KaT said, Linebreeding (a related dog being a great grandparent being shared between the male and female lineages) is an accepted method of breeding in real life, despite the dogs being related. Also, inbred dogs are not the same as inbred humans, they aren't sick or deformed because their genetics aren't the same as our own. You can breed two completely unrelated dogs together, but if they share a certain alele or genetic marking, it can wind up making their puppies blind or deaf. <br /> <br /> So I don't think there are really any grounds for banning inbred dogs from trialing on Alacrity.

08-21-2011 at 8:14 AM

Noooooooo.<br /> <br /> I don't have any inbred or linebred dogs. Just do not support inbreeding/linebreeding penalties. Previous comments covered why.

08-21-2011 at 7:51 AM

what war? I don't see any war cause in that oO but okay.<br /> Inbreeding between any living creatures results in real life in health problems.<br /> <br /> Either that or they should get sick more often I think :|

08-21-2011 at 7:18 AM

<b>No Support on the grounds of starting a Sim War.<br /> <br /> I see your point, but I really don't see how we an stop it without causing a big War of the Bloodlines. I've been on other sims and it got really unpleasant and messy which cause the game to lose players.<br /> <br /> This is something that is up to the owner, and shouldn't really be talked about by anybody else.

08-21-2011 at 6:50 AM

Line-breeding is a very healthy and popular use of inbreeding. Inbreeding is usually necessary in order to keep improving on lines. I don't support any punishments for inbreeding, although we already have one -.-